Hi all,

I am quite new to learning in more detail about databases and I was just wandering if anybody could help me with the following three things:

A clear definition of what exactly a database manifesto is, in quite simple terms.

If and how the two manifestos approaches (object oriented and third generation) are out of date or still relevant

Where the two manifestos approaches differ


Thanks for any help any of you can give, I would be greatful

Is the third generation database manifesto out of date
Presumably you two are on the same course.

A database manifesto is a pile of putrid pontifications by non-practioners.

By defintion, no manifesto could be relevant.

-PatP

those brits, eh, what will they think of next

not you, poots, i mean the school these two british students are attending

what kind of a job are they hoping to get after a course like that?

it is to cry, to see how some unscrupulous unis foist their ridiculous agendas on unsuspecting students...

Well, dictionary.com says a manifesto is "a public declaration of intentions, opinions, objectives, or motives, as one issued by a government, sovereign, or organization."

That tends to fit my personal definition of "manifesto" as being primarily political. It's a stupid term to apply to database studies.

As others have more or less pointed out, the "third manifesto" is generally considered "the" manifesto for RDBMSs. The book is not even remotely a manifesto, as I alluded to earlier, rather it's a list of recommendations (listed as dos and don'ts) as to how to design a good DBMS. Many of the recommendations are based on lessons learned from SQL DBMSs.

As to why it's called a manifesto: the author is a political paranoid of the left-wing variety. He also tends to be simultaneously offensive and thin-skinned. What that means is that a. he views himself as the savior of the database industry but b. he's constantly aggravating people because he makes things personal for no reason and c. when they complain he views it as them trying to suppress him. Thus, in his view, he and his fellow enlightened are constantly thwarted by the simultaneously inept and insidious reactionary business establishment (who, he tends to forget, originally sponsored the design of the systems that are his life's work) and the barbaric ignorance of the masses.

So, while I'm sure he thinks it's a manifesto, it's really just a list of recommendations. It's the same thing with his website: lots of interesting articles explaining how relational theory works with the occasional irrelevancy about George Bush and the inevitable collapse of the IT sector, public education and western civilization.

I've never heard of any canonical object oriented manifesto, and likewise no canonical object oriented model. While there are various disputes as to the details of how the relational model ought to work, they're comparatively minor. In the object oriented world, there are fundamental differences like single vs. multiple inheritance, early vs. late binding, mutable vs. immutable, etc.

I think you are confusing the authors (plural) of The Third Manifesto (C J Date and Hugh Darwen) with Fabian Pascal, who used to run dbdebunk.com and fits your description quite well. Date and Darwen, on the contrary, are never offensive and do not wear their political colours prominently. Of course, they are Brits

dblearner, here is an excellent example of a manifesto:
http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt

That is the manifesto we use

I keep reading these rfh posts and am astounded at the stuff they're teaching less then 2 years after I left! Do they deliberately obfuscate* the meaning of these things? I've never heard of a database manifesto!

Databases are not rocket science**













*thanks Rudy
**rocket science is wayyy easier

the hipper, more intellectual expression is... "X is not rocket surgery"

I can't believe I spent so long punning that up and I got it wrong - post edited.

And damnit Rudy, you're always ahead of the curve that we're all chasing.