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  1. #1
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    May 2008
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    Is the third generation database manifesto out of date

    HI
    do you think that the third generstion database manifesto is out of date now that it is around 15 years old? what additions would need to be made with the introduction of XML????????

  2. #2
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    I think we would need a manifesto outlawing XML. That would bring it up to date.
    If it's not practically useful, then it's practically useless.

    blindman
    www.chess.com: "sqlblindman"
    www.LobsterShot.blogspot.com

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by james19
    HI
    do you think that the third generstion database manifesto is out of date now that it is around 15 years old? what additions would need to be made with the introduction of XML????????
    Do you mean The Third Manifesto?

    I agree with Blindman, but specifically the Third Manifesto says:
    1) You can store what you like as values in database columns (including XML)
    2) You must manage the data as rows in relational tables (not as XML)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    HI
    a huge thanks to both blindman and Andrew for thier replies. Andrew, apparently there exists a thrid generation database system manifesto and a thrid manifesto. Im still trying to figure out the difference between the two but appears that the thrid manifesto backs up relational systems and the thrid generation database manifesto backs an object relational system.

    Some interesting comments about XML, do you think it will affect new versions of object relational or object databses???

    The third generation database system manifesto also states

    "For better or for worse, SQL is 'Intergalactic dataspeak'."

    Im a litlle confused, what does that mean???

    Thanks again for your replies

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by james19
    The third generation database system manifesto also states

    "For better or for worse, SQL is 'Intergalactic dataspeak'."

    Im a litlle confused, what does that mean???
    Not a clue. What's the source? What's the context? What's your stab at it?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by james19
    The third generation database system manifesto also states

    "For better or for worse, SQL is 'Intergalactic dataspeak'."

    Im a litlle confused, what does that mean???
    I think it means the SQL is universally used, ubiquitous. In other words, the authors expect SQL is here to stay whether they like it or not.

    This is very different from the view of the authors of "The Third Manifesto", who consider SQL to be "fatally flawed" and that it should not (indeed cannot) be the language of a true relational DBMS.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewst
    Do you mean The Third Manifesto?

    I agree with Blindman, but specifically the Third Manifesto says:
    1) You can store what you like as values in database columns (including XML)
    2) You must manage the data as rows in relational tables (not as XML)
    I would also point out that, according to the 3rd Manifesto, if you were to store XML fragments or other types of XML data, a TRDBMS would allow you to define an internal representation of that data such that you can manipulate it using relational operations.

    The problem with XML is that it's a tree structure and such structures are difficult to handle because when they get complex you have to use graph theory to manipulate them and enforce integrity constraints. Graph theory works, but it's very hard to do it right and since the relational model can do it anyway, it's unnecessarily hard.

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