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  1. #1
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    Database Manifestos

    Hi all,

    I am quite new to learning in more detail about databases and I was just wandering if anybody could help me with the following three things:

    A clear definition of what exactly a database manifesto is, in quite simple terms.

    If and how the two manifestos approaches (object oriented and third generation) are out of date or still relevant

    Where the two manifestos approaches differ


    Thanks for any help any of you can give, I would be greatful
    Last edited by dblearner89; 05-17-08 at 07:26.

  2. #2
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    http://www.dbforums.com/showthread.php?t=1630337
    Presumably you two are on the same course.

  3. #3
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    A database manifesto is a pile of putrid pontifications by non-practioners.

    By defintion, no manifesto could be relevant.

    -PatP

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pootle flump
    http://www.dbforums.com/showthread.php?t=1630337
    Presumably you two are on the same course.
    those brits, eh, what will they think of next

    not you, poots, i mean the school these two british students are attending

    what kind of a job are they hoping to get after a course like that?

    it is to cry, to see how some unscrupulous unis foist their ridiculous agendas on unsuspecting students...
    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
    Buy my SitePoint book: Simply SQL

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblearner89
    Hi all,

    I am quite new to learning in more detail about databases and I was just wandering if anybody could help me with the following three things:

    A clear definition of what exactly a database manifesto is, in quite simple terms.
    Well, dictionary.com says a manifesto is "a public declaration of intentions, opinions, objectives, or motives, as one issued by a government, sovereign, or organization."

    That tends to fit my personal definition of "manifesto" as being primarily political. It's a stupid term to apply to database studies.

    If and how the two manifestos approaches (object oriented and third generation) are out of date or still relevant

    Where the two manifestos approaches differ
    As others have more or less pointed out, the "third manifesto" is generally considered "the" manifesto for RDBMSs. The book is not even remotely a manifesto, as I alluded to earlier, rather it's a list of recommendations (listed as dos and don'ts) as to how to design a good DBMS. Many of the recommendations are based on lessons learned from SQL DBMSs.

    As to why it's called a manifesto: the author is a political paranoid of the left-wing variety. He also tends to be simultaneously offensive and thin-skinned. What that means is that a. he views himself as the savior of the database industry but b. he's constantly aggravating people because he makes things personal for no reason and c. when they complain he views it as them trying to suppress him. Thus, in his view, he and his fellow enlightened are constantly thwarted by the simultaneously inept and insidious reactionary business establishment (who, he tends to forget, originally sponsored the design of the systems that are his life's work) and the barbaric ignorance of the masses.

    So, while I'm sure he thinks it's a manifesto, it's really just a list of recommendations. It's the same thing with his website: lots of interesting articles explaining how relational theory works with the occasional irrelevancy about George Bush and the inevitable collapse of the IT sector, public education and western civilization.

    I've never heard of any canonical object oriented manifesto, and likewise no canonical object oriented model. While there are various disputes as to the details of how the relational model ought to work, they're comparatively minor. In the object oriented world, there are fundamental differences like single vs. multiple inheritance, early vs. late binding, mutable vs. immutable, etc.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sco08y
    As to why it's called a manifesto: the author is a political paranoid of the left-wing variety. He also tends to be simultaneously offensive and thin-skinned...
    I think you are confusing the authors (plural) of The Third Manifesto (C J Date and Hugh Darwen) with Fabian Pascal, who used to run dbdebunk.com and fits your description quite well. Date and Darwen, on the contrary, are never offensive and do not wear their political colours prominently. Of course, they are Brits

  7. #7
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    dblearner, here is an excellent example of a manifesto:
    http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt
    If it's not practically useful, then it's practically useless.

    blindman
    www.chess.com: "sqlblindman"
    www.LobsterShot.blogspot.com

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindman
    dblearner, here is an excellent example of a manifesto:
    http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt
    That is the manifesto we use

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by r937
    those brits, eh, what will they think of next

    not you, poots, i mean the school these two british students are attending

    what kind of a job are they hoping to get after a course like that?

    it is to cry, to see how some unscrupulous unis foist their ridiculous agendas on unsuspecting students...
    I keep reading these rfh posts and am astounded at the stuff they're teaching less then 2 years after I left! Do they deliberately obfuscate* the meaning of these things? I've never heard of a database manifesto!

    Databases are not rocket science**













    *thanks Rudy
    **rocket science is wayyy easier
    Last edited by gvee; 05-21-08 at 12:58.
    George
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgev
    Databases are not rocket science
    the hipper, more intellectual expression is... "X is not rocket surgery"
    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
    Buy my SitePoint book: Simply SQL

  11. #11
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    I can't believe I spent so long punning that up and I got it wrong - post edited.

    And damnit Rudy, you're always ahead of the curve that we're all chasing.
    George
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