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  1. #1
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    Unanswered: Defend the indefensible - Access 2007

    Hallo peeps!

    I don't do much in Access nowadays, but sometimes I still do. The key advantage of Access for me in recent years was I could quickly throw POC or QAD stuff together, from 2k through to 2003.

    Now that 2007 is out I can't do that any more. I don't have the time or inclination to try to work out this new, butchered version.

    Can anyone defend Access 2007? Ignoring any new features, can you justify (for example) the new "grouping" of objects? The new toolbars? The context sensitive menu bar that morphs every time you move navigate the app? Is there really value added? And can someone like me extract that value without a large investment of time?

    Anyone have any really quick resources that I can skim through and that will give me some idea of where things are now? Or some way to turn (for example) that damn objedct grouping thingy OFF!!!1!

    With love & repsect
    poots
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  2. #2
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    it sucks, i agree
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    Posted as-is.
    Any spelling and/or grammar mistakes are a direct
    result of a communication glitch between my brain
    and my fingers which may or may not be
    directly related to a lack of caffeine intake.
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  3. #3
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    I've recently upgraded to Office 2007 on one of my computers. I really like the new Outlook look and I can see that they tried to stay consistent with the toolbars whether you're in Excel, Access, Word, or Outlook. While the new toolbar look works for the others, it does not work very well for Access (but after working with it for a few weeks, I'm getting the hang of it.) Until then, I'm asking the same question as you poots.
    Expert Database Programming
    MSAccess since 1.0, SQL Server since 6.5, Visual Basic (5.0, 6.0)

  4. #4
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    As a beginner in the Access development world, I've never built an app in any version other than 2007. Personally, I really don't mind the ribbon. Yes, there was some frustration early on because it's so different from the older menu style, but there's no reduction in functionality.

    One of the features I very much appreciate is the ability to create custom groups in the Navigation pane. (By the way, even if you don't customize the navigation pane, you can still view by Object Type, Object Dependency, or simply view all Objects). I spend most of my time working with maybe 5 of the 30 or so objects in a DB, and it's nice to put those in their own group and minimize all the rest.

    Other than that, all of the objects work the same. Your code, forms, queries and reports don't execute any differently than they did in 2003. The program doesn't encourage you to incorporate good database principles in design, but what else is new? This uproar about Access 2007 is a lot of fuss about nothing, IMO. Inevitably the business world will fully transition to the 07 office suite and the capability to integrate with SharePoint will force folks to develop apps in Access 07 as well. Might as well get used to it.

    J

  5. #5
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    It almost seems as though Access 2007 was geared towards beginner developers (or those who had difficulty navigating around in older versions) versus those who used older versions and knew their way around. I'm guessing JManSF can navigate through the menu's in 2007 much easier than I can.

    It's wierd in a way. For example, my parents never could get the hang of Office 2000/XP and the menus (where everything was located and such.) I thought I'd have a nightmare of a time showing them how to navigate around in 2007 when they bought their new computer but they didn't need any of my help and picked it up within a day or two (which saved me some sanity.)
    Expert Database Programming
    MSAccess since 1.0, SQL Server since 6.5, Visual Basic (5.0, 6.0)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstormy
    It almost seems as though Access 2007 was geared towards beginner developers (or those who had difficulty navigating around in older versions) versus those who used older versions and knew their way around. I'm guessing JManSF can navigate through the menu's in 2007 much easier than I can.

    It's wierd in a way. For example, my parents never could get the hang of Office 2000/XP and the menus (where everything was located and such.) I thought I'd have a nightmare of a time showing them how to navigate around in 2007 when they bought their new computer but they didn't need any of my help and picked it up within a day or two (which saved me some sanity.)
    It's always easier to learn something new than to unlearn something old.

  7. #7
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    For people who have only ever used Access 2007 and not seen previous versions, it's fine.

    For developers with experience in previous versions, Access 2007 is just one big joke and a kick in the pants. It's not only the new interface that we had to have for no benefit and tons of disadvantages, it's the fact the b*st*rds have gone an moved all the properties around in the property sheet. I wish they had just sorted the list alphabetically or at least have options to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by pootle flump
    Can anyone defend Access 2007?
    Yes. Just look at Microsoft.

    Seriously, once you get used to the new interface, it's not too bad. There are some nice new features, but none that would warrant the massive GUI restructure.

    Ignoring any new features, can you justify (for example) the new "grouping" of objects? The new toolbars? The context sensitive menu bar that morphs every time you move navigate the app? Is there really value added? And can someone like me extract that value without a large investment of time?
    No.

    Anyone have any really quick resources that I can skim through and that will give me some idea of where things are now?
    Not that I am aware of. You will get used to it with time... just like anything else.

    Or some way to turn (for example) that damn objedct grouping thingy OFF!!!1
    !
    You could ask on a site like dbforums.com. I hear they have some guys there that can help you with just about anything related to Access

    The navigation pain (spelling is correct) has many options to control how it displays objects.

    One thing that I find many people don't know about is double clicking a tab in the ribbon, which collapses it. This recovers screen space, but makes the interface even more annoying than it already is.

    I think the ribbon / QAT is the biggest load of w*nk though, Microsoft should be embarrassed about that. There was nothing wrong with Menus and Toolbars, in fact they are superior by a long shot.

    It almost seems as though Access 2007 was geared towards beginner developers
    Exactly. The impression I got was that some lead developer in the Access department at Microsoft said "screw the developers, let's just focus on n00bs".

    For example, my parents never could get the hang of Office 2000/XP and the menus (where everything was located and such.) I thought I'd have a nightmare of a time showing them how to navigate around in 2007 when they bought their new computer but they didn't need any of my help and picked it up within a day or two (which saved me some sanity.)
    Again, dead right. The interface makes things easier to find in most cases (helping out the n00b) but then some other things are harder to find and work with. Just wait till you try to customise that ribbon And security? Forget it.
    Owner and Manager of
    CypherBYTE, Microsoft Access Development Specialists.
    Microsoft Access MCP.
    And all around nice guy!


    "Heck it's something understood by accountants ... so it can't be 'that' difficult..." -- Healdem
    "...teach a man to code and he'll be frustrated for life! " -- georgev

  8. #8
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    I think that's the point. I was reasonably proficient in Access at one time. As such, that made it my de facto RAD tool of choice for playing around. Now my proficiency has plummeted - it is like learning a new tool...well, because it is. I know what I want to do, I am 99% sure Access can do it but I can't for the life of me see how to quickly.

    I'm an ex-Access developer that does not use Access for his bread and butter work anymore. I do not have the time to invest relearning something that is useful but not essential to me. This is my frustration. I don't mind the ribbon in Excel and Word because I have never been especially proficient in either.
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    ur codings are working excelent.

  9. #9
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    I would also like to point out I'm not a Luddite - I'm not just limbically railing against change. We are in the change business: change excites us and, frankly, keeps the paychecks coming in.

    VB 6.0 -> .NET: AWESOME! It was a paradigm shift - what I have taken out vastly outweighs what I had to put in. If Access 2007 was Access.NET then I might, just might, feel differently.
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  10. #10
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    Well this much is certain: Access 2003 -► Access 2007 is a bigger layout change than the change from from Access 1.0 -► Access 2003.

    You'll either have to invest the time and learn it to feel comfortable about it or you not. If you don't, just do your RAD development in 2003.
    Owner and Manager of
    CypherBYTE, Microsoft Access Development Specialists.
    Microsoft Access MCP.
    And all around nice guy!


    "Heck it's something understood by accountants ... so it can't be 'that' difficult..." -- Healdem
    "...teach a man to code and he'll be frustrated for life! " -- georgev

  11. #11
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    its worth noting though, that by using the new "quick Launch Toolbar" you can add just about any comand to the menu. and it can be shown below the ribbon as well as above.
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    Posted as-is.
    Any spelling and/or grammar mistakes are a direct
    result of a communication glitch between my brain
    and my fingers which may or may not be
    directly related to a lack of caffeine intake.
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

  12. #12
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    Is it?

    For "garden variety users" that's a good thing. Mind you, this is NO BETTER than customisable toolbars/menus, which users could also add in any command -- even custom ones.

    Not to mention that menus and toolbars could be organised so you had the menu above or below the toolbar, so no gain there.

    Once again, it's a MAJOR change for ZERO BENEFIT and TONS OF DISADVANTAGES. The only benefit I see is slightly easier to find commands for brand new Access users.

    Now pretend you're a developer. Try to create some custom commands in the QAT (Quick-Access Toolbar) and secure it so that users can't just add a design button to the QAT and start hacking away at stuff..... or removing buttons from it that the user might need. Then you will start to see some serious limitations.

    No way in the world is the ribbon and QAT better than menus and toolbars. In fact, imo, it's a great deal worse. IMO, the radical change in GUI is a total loss to anyone who was familiar with previous versions of access.
    Owner and Manager of
    CypherBYTE, Microsoft Access Development Specialists.
    Microsoft Access MCP.
    And all around nice guy!


    "Heck it's something understood by accountants ... so it can't be 'that' difficult..." -- Healdem
    "...teach a man to code and he'll be frustrated for life! " -- georgev

  13. #13
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    Oh and just btw, you can NEVER get rid of the big stupid ugly office button at the top left. Any application designed in Access 2007 will scream out to everyone "this was written in Access 2007!!!". This is not true for previous versions of Access.

    That's one of my pet hates about 2007 tbh. Big stupid ugly office button!
    Owner and Manager of
    CypherBYTE, Microsoft Access Development Specialists.
    Microsoft Access MCP.
    And all around nice guy!


    "Heck it's something understood by accountants ... so it can't be 'that' difficult..." -- Healdem
    "...teach a man to code and he'll be frustrated for life! " -- georgev

  14. #14
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    Come on, ST, tell us how you really feel.

    J

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarTrekker
    Oh and just btw, you can NEVER get rid of the big stupid ugly office button at the top left. Any application designed in Access 2007 will scream out to everyone "this was written in Access 2007!!!". This is not true for previous versions of Access.

    That's one of my pet hates about 2007 tbh. Big stupid ugly office button!
    Doesn't 2007 include a runtime version though? i.e. you can "compile" (term used loosely with this product) the application into an executable.
    George
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