Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    11

    dynamic database

    It has been established that data can be manipulated in order to fit into a database. I am a student currently working on the concept of this scenario in vice versa where the database can modify itself in order to fit the data. for example if we look at a database from a physical perspective we can say that the database is a container of data. i am researching if is possible for the the container to adjust itself according to what is being inserted. i am currently trying to apply this multimedia files particularly video streaming. i was wondering if any one had any light to shed on this concept.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    In front of the computer
    Posts
    14,905
    Are you thinking on a small scale like MongoDb, or are you going all the way to something like HADOOP? There's a lot of ground between those two, and the fusion products that combine them alongside a relational product such as Microsoft SQL HADOOP or pushing the relational database all the way into the sharding world like Azure seem more practical and useful to me.

    -PatP
    In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, theory and practice are unrelated.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    11
    sorry i am a electrical engineering student in final year and this has been assigned to me as a final year project. so excuse me if i am not to familiar with the terms you have used as i havent had any previous experience in database development. i have been told by my supervisor that this hasn't yet been accomplished so im searching for a direction to be pushed in. i know that i need to start small scale first then build and ive been told to become familiar which languages such as mysql, php, java and xml. as of right now though im still in the dark, struggling hard to fully grasp this concept.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    In front of the computer
    Posts
    14,905
    The underlined terms in my previous response are URL links, click on any of them to go to the referenced web page. If you need to do basic research on the terms and concepts, visit Wikipedia... It may not be acceptable for publication (most universities forbid references to wikipedia), but it certainly works well enough to get started with a new topic!

    -PatP
    In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, theory and practice are unrelated.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    11
    thanks i have done some basic research and i can comprehend the fundamentals of traditional databases and how they work however i wanted to find out if anyone has heard of such a concept of a database that modifies itselft according to the data so that i could be directed on the steps that need to be taken. i am required to build a prototype for this concept. i was told to think of how you pour water accordingly to fit a glass however this glass is required to adjust its own size i.e shrink or expand according to the volume of water being poured in. one purpose for this is to show how one database can be used to store different quality video streams online and on various devices as opposed to setting up a new database for each version of the same video.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    In front of the computer
    Posts
    14,905
    Ah, that is a classic problem.

    If you find a solution, be sure to drop out of school so you don't need to publish the answer! A working solution to that problem would be worth many billions of euros!

    -PatP
    In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, theory and practice are unrelated.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    11
    wow that is interesting. do you have any light to shed on this topic? even just your opinion on whether this concept is even achievable would be greatly appreciated.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    In front of the computer
    Posts
    14,905
    Video images come in many varieties. Different resolutions, different image densities (color/hue/saturation/etc representation), raw versus compressed... The number of possible combinations are practically infinite and even the commonly used combinations are staggering.

    From a practical standpoint, it isn't possible to put enough computing power between the stored image (file) and the display device to make image transliteration (changing the video format) practical. The stored format determines the upper limit of presentation, although it is possible to dither/feather/plane and depixelate/etc an image to make it appear to have a better quality image. Doing most image conversions requires either vast amounts of memory or enormous (peta-flops) of processing power, neither of which is cheap.

    YouTube.com is the current "king of the hill" in terms of sheer quantity and in many cases quality of video image. Their strategy is complex, and actually fascinating in terms of how they manage to present so much video so fast to so many different display platforms. At least as far as I know, even Youtube doesn't have a workable N resolutions from a single storage format or any practical way to increase the quality of a stored image.

    There are companies that have been in the business of image processing and storage for decades, and if any one of them ever discovered how to store a single copy of a video image in such a way that it could be quickly and easily transformed for display in multiple formats (not every format, just a few popular ones) that news would rock the industry. There was a small company that was close, but their work depended on a working quantum computer and that hasn't appeared yet either.

    There are a number of NLE systems that can do video conversion via hardware, but all of them that I know of are strictly limited to a few standardized and rigorously controlled presentations.

    At least at the moment, a database which stores the metadata and a user interface which hides the complexity of multiple format presenations from its users is the best answer available. This is more along the lines of a good bartender with a strong bar-back and a good variety of glasses. What you originally described seems closer to the replicator technology from the NCC-1701d than to any technology I've seen.

    -PatP
    In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, theory and practice are unrelated.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    12,564
    You can certainly create databases that adapt themselves to different data relationships.
    EAV (Entity Attribute Value) databases are the most common example.
    The questions being bypassed, though, is SHOULD you create such databases.
    Developers frequently chafe under the restrictions of relational integrity and data constraints imposed by databases, and long for the ability to circumvent them and use the database as a simple flexible container for whatever data they choose to store on the whim of the moment.
    But a primary function of a database is to limit the data that it stores, in order to ensure relational integrity.
    In much the same way, drivers on their morning commute may curse every red light and stop sign they encounter, but the fact it that the order imposed by these rules actually serves to facilitate the flow of traffic and make everyone's ride safer and faster.
    Experienced DBAs realize that building databases without structure or constraints leads inevitably to corrupt data and administrative nightmares.
    If it's not practically useful, then it's practically useless.

    blindman
    www.chess.com: "sqlblindman"
    www.LobsterShot.blogspot.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    5,427
    Quote Originally Posted by cdella View Post
    i was told to think of how you pour water accordingly to fit a glass however this glass is required to adjust its own size i.e shrink or expand according to the volume of water being poured in.
    Could you provide a few use cases illustrating how such a database would work? The description above (a container that changes its size depending on how much data are in it) sounds almost trivial.
    ---
    "It does not work" is not a valid problem statement.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    12,564
    ...and a container that adjusted its shape to the shape of the water wouldn't be very good at holding water, would it?
    If it's not practically useful, then it's practically useless.

    blindman
    www.chess.com: "sqlblindman"
    www.LobsterShot.blogspot.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by blindman View Post
    ...and a container that adjusted its shape to the shape of the water wouldn't be very good at holding water, would it?
    maybe that wasn't the best analogy to put forward however i still feel its somewhat valid just to apprehend this concept. just imagine a cup being filled to the brim and as you pour more the size of the cup increases and vice versa. a flexible container would be the best description for this concept. maybe the concept would better be described as similar to a water balloon when water is poured in or drained the size and shape of the balloon changes. ive been told nosql databases seem to be doing closer to what i am proposing. i think this concept has a relationship to tim berners-lee's new concepts of 'linked data' and the 'sematic web'. im a aware there are databases which adapt to data relationships however this database has to adapt to the data.. any light shed on this topic is greatly appreciated and for this to keep going motivates me to find a solution
    Last edited by cdella; 02-12-13 at 17:28.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    5,427
    Quote Originally Posted by n_i View Post
    Could you provide a few use cases
    Quote Originally Posted by cdella
    maybe the concept would better be described as similar to a water balloon when water is poured in or drained
    I believe there actually is some difference between a use case and analogy.

    If your use case involves storing water in flexible containers, then you already have your answer: buy some balloons. If, on the other hand, you plan to store and retrieve data, please describe the data and how the access to it would look from the database user perspective.
    ---
    "It does not work" is not a valid problem statement.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    11
    Yes there are plans to store and retrieve the data, and the data in question is media such as audio and video. The user interface for the database would appear to the user in the form of a digital library with archives of uncompressed data included. The system would also have to be intelligent, linking the data using metadata with an aim to make the search more efficient.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    5,427
    Quote Originally Posted by cdella View Post
    Yes there are plans to store and retrieve the data, and the data in question is media such as audio and video.
    Any modern database can do that for you, so I'm not sure why there's a notion that " this hasn't yet been accomplished".
    ---
    "It does not work" is not a valid problem statement.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •