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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Unanswered: Shared database and multi user enviroment

    Hi,

    I've tried to test BDB on network with multi users. Please let me know if I understand this correctly: For user to be able to log into shared database at least one user with administrator rights must be logged in before simple user tries to connect? In other words if administrator signs out of the shared database - no one else can connect to it?

    It seems that DBD should always be up and running? Am I missing something here?

    Is it different if you use Ultimate edition?

    Thank you!
    rimpet

  2. #2
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    For user to be able to log into shared database at least one user with administrator rights must be logged in before simple user tries to connect?

    Yes and no, any user can start the Network Share, but allowing that is a very bad idea. Soon as the database is shared, other users who need to connect will need to know the IP address of the actual PC that's sharing the database.

    This is why it's ideal that the same PC is used to load and share the database every time as the Network Address will then always be the same.

    In addition to that, while any level user can be given the ability to share the database, from a permissions and development point of view, it simply makes more sense that an administrator is the one who is sharing the database.

    In other words if administrator signs out of the shared database - no one else can connect to it?
    It has nothing to do with the Administrator, it's the PC address that was sharing the database. If the database is not open and set to Network Share, then nobody can access that database on that IP address because the PC is not sharing it.

    It seems that DBD should always be up and running? Am I missing something here?
    Correct, shared databases need to be run on a sever or dedicated PC 24/7. It's the only way more than 1 network user can access the database at the same time.

    Is it different if you use Ultimate edition?
    You have more control over users and permissions, plus the option to compile the database as our very own application, so no need to pay for additional licences and so on.

    There's countless security benefits too.

    Regards
    James

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    18
    Thank you, James!

    Below is more detailed description on what am I trying to do:

    I'm testing network with BDB server edition. I have a timer that shares database on startup. It works fine for user with admin rights, but when simple user tries to open DB, it does not get shared because user has no admin rights. In BDB server edition only users in Administrator group can share database, but at the same time they get other admin privileges that is actually not a good thing...

    DB is installed on server, so there is no change in IP address. Server is running 24/7, but our PC's are turned off every day. The only way I came up to share the DB correctly is to log on as Admin and leave my PC running 24/7, so other simple users can log on to DB at any time. But what if I leave the office for a week or two? I don't need to keep my PC running all the time...

    I'm not an IT Pro, this may be a very easy question... but I can not get how to make the DB running on the server without me being logged on to it? Once I log off the server, DB gets unshared and no one can connect to it without admin rights...

    Thanks a lot for you help!
    rimpet

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Hello.

    I have a timer that shares database on startup. It works fine for user with admin rights, but when simple user tries to open DB, it does not get shared because user has no admin rights. In BDB server edition only users in Administrator group can share database, but at the same time they get other admin privileges that is actually not a good thing...
    Very sorry, I've just verified that here too. Only members of the administrator group can share the database.

    DB is installed on server, so there is no change in IP address. Server is running 24/7, but our PC's are turned off every day. The only way I came up to share the DB correctly is to log on as Admin and leave my PC running 24/7, so other simple users can log on to DB at any time. But what if I leave the office for a week or two? I don't need to keep my PC running all the time...
    But if the server is running 24/7, why not use that?

    I'm not an IT Pro, this may be a very easy question... but I can not get how to make the DB running on the server without me being logged on to it? Once I log off the server, DB gets unshared and no one can connect to it withouIt admin rights...
    Bingo, there's your problem.

    If you log off a Windows Server it shuts down opened applications. So by you logging off, your actually telling Windows to shut brilliant database down.

    You need to select “Lock” instead of “log off”. This secures the server and keeps all open applications running.

    Regards
    James.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubbritt View Post
    You need to select “Lock” instead of “log off”. This secures the server and keeps all open applications running.
    I'd probably just create a Windows Start Task to share the Brilliant Database and run that task as an Administrator. That way the task will automagically restart when the PC does.

    -PatP
    In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, theory and practice are unrelated.

  6. #6
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    Yep, good idea.
    That will work but he would need to run a bat file that contains a specific command prompts instead of directly trying to launch brilliant database.

    Reason being, his Timer Script that auto shares network access to the database won't run until he actually logs into brilliant database on the copy running on the server.

    Here's an example of the commands needed to be placed inside a bat file.

    Code:
    cd c:\
    cd c:\Program Files (x86)
    cd Programs Folder Name
    start yourapp.exe -user:Administrator# -password:1234# C:\Path\To\database\mydatabase.bbd
    That being said, personally, I think it's a bad idea to use a Timer to auto share the database. Hardcoding the port numbers is totally unnecessary.

    By making a small change to the DOS commands above, he can auto launch network share and specify port numbers.

    For example, if he changes the last of the bat file to this....

    Code:
    start yourapp.exe -user:Administrator# -password:1234# -share -port:6420 C:\Path\To\database\mydatabase.bbd
    This will allow the server to reboot and fully launch brilliant database, it will auto login, and run the network share. In short, everything is fully automated.

    Regards
    James

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tubbritt View Post

    You need to select “Lock” instead of “log off”. This secures the server and keeps all open applications running.
    Thank you, James!
    I tried and I failed. I can "Lock", but when I shutdown the PC I get logged off the server.
    This works fine if I connect to server with Remote Desktop Connection. This way I can disconnect and connect whenever I want.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Phelan View Post

    I'd probably just create a Windows Start Task to share the Brilliant Database and run that task as an Administrator. That way the task will automagically restart when the PC does.

    -
    Thank you, Pat!
    This will not help if I do it on PC as it may be turned off for a week or two. But this is a very good idea to try on the server. Perhaps its possible to run the Task on server restart without anyone being logged in.

    I'll try to play with Task Manager and also have an idea to run BDB as windows service )) or to run it somehow in the background.... Just brainstorming.

    I see BDB works a bit different than other programs. And for the moment I understand that it is not possible for user to run BDB database without Administrator logged on to it first. In other words: if Administrator is on vacation and his PC is off, no one can use BDB.

    Hope I'm wrong

    Thanks a lot for your help and advices!
    rimpet

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    I tried and I failed. I can "Lock", but when I shutdown the PC I get logged off the server.
    Sorry I don't understand. Are you at the actual server?

    It's the server you should be running everything on, so there's no shutting down. That should be running 24/7. You simply login directly to the server as Admin, run your database and share it. Then LOCK the server.

    This will ensure the app stays running and serving all connected clients.

    This works fine if I connect to server with Remote Desktop Connection. This way I can disconnect and connect whenever I want.
    Going in over remote desktop is different. You simply click on the X to close your Remote Desktop Connection / Window. No need to select LOCK at all in this case.

    Regards
    James

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    18
    James,

    I'm not the actual server. I log into the server from my PC. Even though I have administrator rights, I do not mange, update or take care of it. Today, I asked our IT, but did not get much of a help. Perhaps, I did not know what exactly to ask for.

    From what you tell me, I assume that it should be ease to run BDB on server without any PC turned on. I will work this out with our IT.

    It's not the first time I'm trying to run multi user program on our network. Usually, I install the program on server, then a copy on each PC and it works, but BDB is different...

    Thanks a lot for your help!
    I really appreciate it!

    rimpet

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    18
    James, Pat,

    Thank you for all your help and sorry for my lack of knowledge about servers.
    Now I understand what is to run program on the server. Until today, I had no clue it is possible to log in to the server locally I always did it though PC.
    Everything works great!

    rimpet

  11. #11
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    Nice work..!!!!
    I'm delighted to hear your up and running.

    Regards
    James

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